A few weeks ago, I, Annika, had the opportunity to Interview Stefan and Viktor about their journey to Civolution. We talked for more than an hour and we split the whole talk into 3 parts for you. The parts will all be posted this week so stay tuned! The whole talk was in German and we translated it for you, so there might be some things lost in translation, but we tried our best to capture the essence!
Origin and development of the game/First ideas
Annika:
Stefan, when did you have the idea for Civolution in the first place? How long had you been working on it before you showed it to someone?
Stefan:
Those are always difficult questions. In principle, it started from this dice mechanism. And I would say, Viktor, how long have we been working on the game now? Since 2019?
Viktor:
2019, I think, but it's also possible we talked about it before that. I was at a game testing week with Matthias in 2019, and you've already shown us something there. That means we must have talked to you about it before.
Stefan:
Exactly, so I would almost say it was eight years ago, so it was about two years before you approached me that I had this mechanism in my head and said I wanted to make a game out of it. But because it had already become clear that it couldn't become a small game with 21 possible actions, well 21 possible actions until that were then suddenly tripled by Viktor, you couldn't make a small game out of it. And so that was the crystallization point. So, 2017, let's estimate that now, I guess. Exactly.
Annika:
So, was combining the dice and triggering the actions the core mechanism? And did you just have the mechanism as an idea at some point, were you standing in the shower and had the idea for it or did you sit down and think, I want to do something with dice that's strategic?
Stefan:
Well, it was clear that I always wanted to do something with dice. And maybe 20 years ago, I had a card game, but it was never published, where you actually got a certain number of cards in your hand and had to combine them. And what was left in your hand determined the subsequent actions. At some point, however, I bagged that up and finally took it up again and transferred it to the six-sided dice and then this action tree came out. And now comes the old question, how does an idea come about? Unfortunately, I don't remember. It just came.
Annika:
Yes, that's how it is sometimes! You just said that Viktor and Matthias approached you?
Stefan:
Yes, how did that happen, Viktor?
Viktor:
Yes, it must have been at SPIEL 2018, when we started telling people that we were planning something (to found Deep Print Games, editor's note), and that's probably when we started talking about it. I think the first time we actually looked at doing something together was at Berlin Con 2019.
Stefan: Without having the topic around it. But the two of them immediately said, yes, whatever, it can be something big. And then the follow-up idea was to say, I've always wanted to do something along the lines of a civilization game, but also with evolutionary elements. And then it took a year, I think, since that conversation, for me to tinker with the game and then get into this theme of civilization and evolution. And then I think we played it. But where did we play it?
Viktor:
At the beginning of 2020, before everything started with Covid, we played it for the first time at a gaming event. I think that was the first test we played live with a prototype that you brought with you.
Stefan:
Exactly, and it still had a lot of rough edges, let's put it that way, it was also relatively aggressive. I think I remember that my son completely pushed Peter off the plan. But Peter doesn't mind that sort of thing, fortunately. But the direction was clear and my approach is that I first need feedback as to whether it's the right direction so that we can decide whether to continue working on it or not. And then I think you've already taken the prototype with you. Or what was it like?
Viktor:
Yes, I think we took it with us. And then you had also implemented it in Tabletopia. And then we kind of played it there again. And then I said, okay, yes, now is the time, you can send me all the maps and everything. And then I'll see what I can do. Exactly. So that would have been in the middle, around the end of 2020.
Stefan:
Working with Viktor was a new experience for me in terms of working with Viktor, because before it was more of a direct ping-pong with other editorial teams. And here we really worked in a completely different way, I just handed over a rough framework and Viktor basically worked on it completely and then gave it back to me. Then I revised it again and then it went back again and it was only in the final phase that there were short-term agreements. That was quite exciting, but of course profitable and efficient. So there have also been projects where both sides have developed in parallel and that works not at all.
Anni:
Was that easy for you?
Stefan:
Well, it requires a certain amount of trust in each other and the willingness to say, okay, let the other person have a go and really change something and let go of the need to control things. And not everyone can do that. Yes, it's really easy for me because I always realize that it's a team effort and in the end it's a product of everyone involved and then you have to be able to let go. And say: and then we'll change something and what gets thrown out might come back in another game if it was good enough. So that wasn't a problem at all. Viktor and I had worked together very briefly once, at Forum Trajanum. And there was no doubt, of course, it will work with Viktor.
Anni:
You said yes when Deep Print didn't even officially exist yet. The game was with Viktor, so to speak, and where Viktor went, the game went?
Stefan:
Yes, and that's the most important thing for me. For me, this kind of collaboration only works on a relationship level. Now, of course, I'm in the fortunate situation that I don't need the money either, so to speak. Of course, I'm happy when things go well, but it just has to be right between the people and that's why I'm the handshake type of guy. You've got it now and you're making something of it, and it will work out, that kind of basic trust.
Part 2 comes tomorrow!